Dowry is an evil, evil system and all of us, at some level, condone it and even contribute to it. Why? to say is black deal,if the couple died without children, the dowry was returned to the bride's family. Failure to provide a customary, or agreed-upon, dowry could call off a marriage. The acted of payment we inherited it from our ancestors, but they have gone to the difference world with theirs system. Today dowry encourages divorces and mistreatment of female’s right. Not only, but bachelors are in actives because of that.

My answer is no because we are traditional soceity. If we change our traditional to modern soceity we will lose our own cultural values.

Proverbs 22:28-29 "Do not move an ancient boundary stone set up by your forefathers. Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings, he will not serve before obscure men".
If my interpretation is correct, Holy Bible is telling us that spirit enables each nation to invent moral values to regulate its affairs.

NB:
Most of laws in the world are based on common law. Common law here is a product of customs, habits and usages made sacred by constant repetition and acquired by each person in childhood.

Meanwhile, most of the world governments legislate and regulate our behaviors through wrong License that have impact on human personality.

The same sex marriage and abortion for example are result of abandoning traditional values.They are most mortal sins because they oppose God intention.
But by customs and habits and usages, we are control by our Consciences.

Please, be aware that, eradication of customary values is denying oneself.
ISAIAH 45:3 I' THE LORD, THE GOD OF ISRAEL, WHO CALL YOU BY YOUR NAME.
My skin brothers and sisters, do not be impress by other civilizations because yours are too from God since God calls each nations by particular name.
The values you are trying to abandon are needed by other people and I asured you that if you make a research on them, you would be granted degrees.

It is a good idea to modify rather than to terminate.
Be careful and know that the world is in ideological, religous, cultural and racial conflicts becuase no nation could accept to give up his values.
Every nation could only incorporate deomcracy and technology and not more.

Hello brothers Nyaopun Aban Aban and Otuk J Chwoy,

Thank you both very much for pitching in with your constructive contributions on this sensitive issue. In fact, I brought it up here with the intention to study the two different sides of the coin on the matter. And hopefully come up with a concrete conclusion on this topic at the end of the day. Of course after having have had an opportunity to engage in an healthy debate, and a good discussion on this unforgiving but wonderful tradition of ours.

I find both of your responses prospectively genuinely positive in nature, but defer only from one another in sustain, which is actually the purpose of this article. As I mention above; some traditionalists like brother Otuk J Chwoy still strongly believe that Dowry or dower, is a gesture of appreciation, and an integral part of our culture which should be kept. While others like brother Nyaopun Aban Aban argue that it is an outdated tradition which doesn’t serve a purpose in our days anymore, and should be abolished.

Let me tell a little story about how devastating this dowry or dower business can be sometimes to some of us. The other day, one of our beloved Collo brothers, who also happened to be a good friend of mine around here for some reasons decided to get married to his "high school sweetheart" back home, and had to go through the process of the dowry, and later on sponsoring her to joint him here. This is what he had to say about his ordeal “it sounded like a good idea and a pride in many ways at the beginning, but deep down at the end, it felt like some sort of unprecedented agony”.

Dude had to take two jobs just to meet the basic requirements of the dowry imposed on him.

Hello brother William Okuch Dak,

Bravo … It looks like you got some of the information you posted above from a well known dictionary that I personally happened to be very well familiar with. Nonetheless, I strongly suggest you should please read the main article once again to fully understand what the topic is all about before jumping to a conclusion, and getting unnecessarily bent out of shape.

Kwopz.
Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance (Kwopipan, 1986)

Thank you brother Kwopipan for your courage to introduce, to our discussion forum such an important social issue that needs to be addressed. Certainly, a changing society like ours needs to think, dialogue and discuss before we are submerged into a deeper dilemma.
The institution of dowry is already in crisis. How many marriages hang in balance? How many of our brothers did not pay or complete their dowry? How many of our sisters are forced to separate from their husbands due to lack of cattle. Many times they had to fight their families in order to stay with the man they love. Unfortunately their marriage legally remain unrecognized.
The concept of dowry needs to be redefined, emptied of manipulation and greed. The laws that regulate dowry must be clarified, reformulated and even written.
I think our ancestors had good motives to have instituted the dowry. Thus we need to rediscover their original motivations, in order to embark on any project of reform.
1. Yes, Traditions must be kept but they are not perennial. They change with generations. Traditions created by a generation may not serve the social end of the new generation.
2. What do we do with the present incomplete marriage situations?
3. Collo have become a global Society, a citizen of the world, our children born in USA, or in Australia or in Europe and brought up there, will not understand the meaning of dowry. An Ocuolo is no longer narrowly defined by geographical limitations as belonging to the Collo land or South Sudan. Nor can he be defined by pure Collo cultural traditions and blood. An Ocuolo has become a citizen of the world, with a global personality.
Let us remember, dowry is an institution created by man (male). I think we have to listen to our sisters. A third millennium Ocuolo is becoming more aware of the danger to consider as marginal the opinion of woman. As many of them become educated, they become aware of the injustice man inflicts on them. We don’t need them to arrive to the level of radical feminism as in the Western societies.
Th

Dowry is " an integral part of our culture", is a morally-uplifting cultural practice.we only need to understand the meaning behind the practice.For example, when Abraham sent his servant Eliezer to find a wife for his son Isaac, "...he brought out gold and silver jewelry and articles of clothing and gave them to Rebekah; he also gave costly gifts to her brother and to her mother" Gen 24: 53. from this example we can understand that dowry is marriage gift that is given to the bride's family. however, it has been used inappropriately to mean the purchasing of a wife as a man's property and it also has become exploited by greed. If we understand its meaning appropriately and work collectively to prevent it from being influenced by bad cultures, I think Collo's way of paying dowry is unique from others cultures

Hello brother Mathew Pagan

I am really very proud of you … Where did you learn how to speak so good like this? … This is very educational, and exactly what I was looking for … I know when you speak, you say the truth loud and clear … I am really very happy to have a brother like you on here.

Peace.

Kwopz.
Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance (Kwopipan, 1986)

Hello Tipo William,

Very well said … You dug it out from the roots history … Right from the book (the Bible) itself … How nice?

Have a good day

Kwopz.
Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance (Kwopipan, 1986)

Hello Kwopipan Wad-Tit.
I wishes you again if you could reads the comment made by our brother; Mathew Pa'gan, in his third no points.

I begs you, on what you say to; William Okuch Dak
"Nonetheless, I strongly suggest you should please read the main article once again to fully understand what the topic is all about before jumping to a conclusion, and getting unnecessarily bent out of shape".
We are for the logics of the comments, but you had mis quoted him. what you though of positives and negatives comment all about. But for him, he was giving the alternatives if the answers will be yes or No. But how to modify it through the all comments made.

You are absolutely right. I take that back. Sorry brother William Okuch Dak.

Kwopz.
Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance (Kwopipan, 1986)

The question under discussion here is a misplaced query because Collo do not have a dowry system in the first place. I will explain this statement in details in a separate article which will be posted soon.

Dowry has a long history in many cultures. it may have a different meaning if we look at it in culture-specific terms. What Mr/ Kwopipan has raised here by using dowry, can be understood simply as the marriage payment or bride price in our culture.

I understand brother Kwopipan that debate on issue is a hard task. Therefore, I do sincere accept your apology. It is good that I received your apology before I kick back the ball as good socrer player.

As a matter of fact,I did not give my opinion about the dowry for two reasons.
First, lack of evaluation. The author did not find disadvantgaes and advantages of dowry. Moreover,it did not define its meaning.
I only used word, "to modify" because we all know that to design old thing in new way means keeping its orginality. This happen after careful evaluation of current situation and future result.

Second reason is dowry is not related to Collo marriage custom so we should not give much of our energy talking about it.

So what I wrote is a kind of preluding to enable ourself to think before we begin new initiation.

Also I mentioned that, "research" on our culture is so important for many educational institutions as you know students from western world are pouring to third world on documentary reseach mission while most of our students do their researches from ready books.

My appreciation goes to Nyaopun. Thank you very much Nyaopun Aban Aban for your good attention. Good job.

What it means to Collo society if we abolish the Dwory in our community, meanwhile others sudanese communities are still keeping theirs.

I think before we ask people to give away their families members unwillingly, We should secure them, care for them in terms of healthcare, education, economic development, food secruity etc.

If every one is struggling by his / her life inorder to meet the basic needs and it sames to me no leadership no destination. Can somebody in such a situation be asked to give up the his / her rights simply like that.

Can we meet the needs of our people first in terms :social respect,employment,government,economic development,education, and security.

My own opinion we can't afford keep doing mistakes "Such as somebody killing you and still you and still you think is not an enemy" : If sudanese agree people abolish then we too if not then we keep our too. This is not an academic issue, this a social issue and may cause a severe damage to the community if it's done by only one community.

I think it's better for us to discuss different issues: such as how do we provide clean water to the citizens of Upper Nile State? or how do we form a unify marriage law among the tribes of Upper Nile State?

I don't want to correct the author but it would have more beneficial if his article would have addressed the dwory in Sudan or South Sudan.

Thanks brothers for your contribution either in one way or other. I was going to be the first to comment but i delete my comment, not because what ... i had mention is not right but because it is of the world wide and did not describe collo in particular. It might me helpful to other communities For my own understanding after carefully consider other tribe sin term of dowry, collo has one of the best controlled and well maintained culture, in fact we my fit in top five in Africa.
I think we are in the right side, but should we abolished,we will regret it because it will divert our rich culture to wrong direction. It will be good news to the lazies one, not for the respectful collo at this time.

Hi,borther Matthew Pagan, I appreciate your input. However, please allow me to discuss one of your point of view that,

"Collo have become a global Society, a citizen of the world, our children born in USA, or in Australia or in Europe and brought up there, will not understand the meaning of dowry. An Ocuolo is no longer narrowly defined by geographical limitations as belonging to the Collo land or South Sudan. Nor can he be defined by pure Collo cultural traditions and blood. An Ocuolo has become a citizen of the world, with a global personality".
I mentioned that, the world is in ideological, religous, cultural and racial conflicts.
Immigrantion is in question now and many hosting countries are re-legislating immigration laws to limit it.
WHY? Because immigrants bring with them different values and cultures which are risk to the stability of native culture and values.
HOW? Laws of hosting countries permit right of the new comers to build their own educational, religious and social institutions.
Let me mention one occasion, INDIA BONNET. Law in Canada gives right to all people from different countries living in Canada to practice their own culture providing that it doesn't affect Canadaian civil peace. Meanwhile, everyone is abid by Canadian laws.
Trafic law requires cyclist to wear helmit. Meanwhile, Indian people wear their headboonet and some of them said they can not use helmit because they cannot remove their traditional headwear. So since law gives right to all, Indian people are trying to make government to treat Indian people in special way in order not to give up their traditional headwear.
If we think about our children being born in other countries that they would lost their values. It is logical to their parents have their cultural, social and religious associations to inspire them. Also, it doesn't mean if those children are observed or evaporated into those world that their people who are majority from their original countries have to adopt new change becuase of their children born abroad.
No.
Let consider cultural dresses of some of world leaders. For example, most of the Arab presidents in Gulf and that of Afghanistan and India use their culturally formal dresses during offical visitation to other states and during international conferences or summits.
So why should we be ready to yield to our children being born in other countries while other immigrant children like them are being consider risk to native values and heads of states are asserting that by dressing themselves offically with their cultrual dresses?
In my personal opinon, part of our good values should be exported to other nation culture.
My wife is from Philippines and she and my children are very proud of Collo values.
For example, during Collo cultural day in 2001 in Beirut, Lebanon, she was wearing Collo custume and she and my son one two year son were participants in Collo dance. Moreover, my son loves Collo song very much speically Nyshan song. Whenever he cries, we play Nyshan music and stop crying as he enjoy music.

One thing me and my wife have agreed is to buy cows and give them to her parents in future in Philippines and this must happen by the will of God.
Let call your attention to former slaves known as Black Americans.They are searching to find their orginal home and lanaguage.
Then how can we allow our children to be simply observed into other people way of life.
It is moral responsibility to protect our customs by mdofiying them to match with new generation

Hello brother Tipo William,

He in fact posted a different article entitled “Dowry in Collo Community”, in which he viciously attacked me for allegedly having misused the word ‘Dowry’ in my article instead of the words ‘Bride Price’, and also for what he is referring to as “copying ideas from one context to another”. But I chose to keep a low profile, and not to respond to his allegations, for these three main reasons. First, if Mr. Okuk really doesn’t understand what we are talking about here, then there is nothing I can do at this point to make him understand. Secondly, if he is attacking me just for personal reasons, then again there is nothing I can do at this moment to make him change his mind. And thirdly I didn’t want to comment on his article simply because he sounds like very disturbed man, and didn’t want to unnecessarily stir up things that could have probably agitated him further, which I think could have escalated the whole case to a new level. However, thank you very much for your good observation, and such a brilliant clarification.

Fortunately enough it looks like everyone else got the message that’s why we were able to have a healthy discussion on this issue for a while, until our beloved brother James Solomon Okuk who seems to be the only one having difficulties comprehending the main idea behind the message, or perhaps have a different agenda on his mind unexpectedly broke into our private space.

In fact many people often enough, inadvertently use the word ‘Dowry’ mistakenly for ‘Bride Price’ just like this author here for example: “The Shilluk dowry is a minimum of 10 cows and 30 sheep and goats.”

For more information please refer to:
http://www.gurtong.org/ResourceCenter/people/profile_tribe.asp?TribeID=101

And that is also what the original article from the BCC Website that Mr. Okuk is now accusing me of copying was all about. It looks like everyone else got the idea from the get go except him. Therefore, I am surprised, and very worried about his level of understanding. I really don’t know why our brother James Solomon Okuk happened to be the only one who is not able to understand what everyone else is talking about here, or perhaps intentionally chose to overlook the meaning behind the entire message for his own personal reasons; when it is stated clearly in both mind, and the original article that: ‘In Kenya however, young women say they are fed up with “having a price on their heads"’.

And where in the world did Mr. Okuk get the nerves to repeatedly keep accusing me of plagiarism, or “copying ideas from one context to another” as he likes to call it, when I already quoted the source where I got the idea from by saying: This article was originally published (in a different format): Tuesday, 6 March, 2007, 12:35 GMT 12:35 UK on the BBC.

For more information please refer to:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=2643&start=15&edition=2&ttl=20081113041431

I may not have the best translation for the next quote, and don’t remember the author either. But I thought it is important to share it with you anyways to hopefully shed some light on this issue. They say in Latin that: “languages are made primarily for communication. Therefore, a language serves it purpose when we are able to make our points across successfully through it”; which of course seems not to be the case here today according to our beloved brother James Solomon Okuk. It looks like he is somehow not interested in the truth or the actual contents of the message for some reasons, but the quality of the language in which it is written. How can he not see that everyone else is able to understand the meaning behind the message as it is, but him?

What could I have possibly said, or done wrong to such a good man like Mr. Okuk for him to lash out at me viciously in such a savage manner? And to go as far as treating me along with everyone else who responded to my article like bunch of idiots; just as if we didn’t know the meanings, or the difference between ‘Dowry’ and ‘Bride Price’. Could it possibly be my name that he doesn’t like? Or maybe the tone of my voice that he is having trouble with? Or perhaps the way I talk that keeps irritating him? I have no idea.

Anyways, finally I would like to sincerely thank Mr. Okuk very much for the free anthropology, sociology, and English language lesson he taught me today. I think I needed it so desperately. As you can tell obviously from my writing that English is not my first language or my best subject either. Therefore, very often my thick accent gets in the way, that’s when a very knowledgeable English language expert like Mr. Okuk comes in handy.

Kwopz.
Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance (Kwopipan, 1986)

Hello Kwopipan Wad-Tit. You have gone a stray from your Slogan, if you meant for nature.
"Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance"
Thanks, to prove yourself. But, words like allegations and personally reasons are not for diplomats in forum.
To be honestly Brothers both articles have gave difference means. Your articles needs yes or No, and James's article, if it is fixed let's say comments.

Hello Nyaopun Aban Aban,

Thank you very much for the comments. Your point is well taken.

Now, I got the point. The vicious against me from Mr. Okuk was about my signature (Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance) that kept getting into his nerves, and irritating the hell out of his attention deficit disorder conditions.

Sorry, I didn’t know that dude is “a PhD student in the University of Nairobi”. Therefore he should be considered as the only one person on earth who knows everything about anything, and rest of the people in the world know nothing about anything, and everything else.

This message is for Mr. Okuk ... Sorry buddy, please rest assured that my signature has nothing to do with you, or your PhD Studies. It is not meant for you personally, or anyone else on this board for that matter. It is only a personal statement in general terms that I came up with long time ago, back in the day when I was going to school. Given the date in which it was first created (1986); it shows clearly that it was written long ago probably before you could have even set foot in a classroom.

Please stop attacking innocent people lik me, and keep on doing what you have been doing up to the point before you met me here. I hope God helps you in your PhD studies.

Kwopz.
Diploma is a visible sign for invisible ignorance (Kwopipan, 1986)

Sorry I meant to say the vicious attack against me ...

Please, I beg you brothers,
Let us keep focus on our discussion. It’s an important cultural problem that requires the courage and prudence to accept whatever words come our way in this forum. We must remain steady, reflective, and refrain from diverting our discussion into personal issues. We have a goal to achieve, as it is said: talking is part of the solution. I hope we will achieve something.
Just forgive…let us continue our dialogue.
Thanks

Dear brother, William Okuch Dak,
I understand how passionately you love our motherland and culture. But I think your world view is totally different from the world of your children. Maybe you used to go after cows or goats, or had your own cattle. You understood their value, in that part of the world and in that particular culture in Collo land.. The first thing or among the things you saw as a child was the cattle. Since then they have shaped your mind and have become part of you, whether you like it or not.
I belong to the same world as you are, maybe the same generation. Your children have no direct experience of cattle or of bride wealth, as we had. When we were young we were taught and saw the value and meaning of the bride wealth. Your children will be influenced by the world around them that shapes their thinking and their life. Let me give you an example that happened two years ago. A girl of Pakistan origin, was killed by her father with the agreement of her mother, because she wanted to live like a European. She had an affair with a European boy a colleague of hers in the school. Her parents were angry because she broke the tradition, a cousin of hers was supposed to engage her and marry, back home in Pakistan. A clear example of clash of values between generations and specially the first generation of immigrants and their children.
The world is experiencing a strong wave of immigration, and there is no way for the strictest of laws to halt it. It will eventually fall like the Berlin wall. Secondly, if globalization is true too its meaning, then any country will become a home to any human being. The direct consequences is not creating ghettos but opening more chances to pluralism at all levels of human life. And for us we have to rethink the bride wealth before they eliminate it for us.

Confusion; with respect to our value as collo and this website, let me begin by pointing out that the comment we made here should not be considered as undermining or become as an argument since we are not debating here. Kwoopipan Wad- Tit should not act as a judge, because you don't need to reply every individual. Your article is very clear to every one but don't expect all responses to be positive ones. It will be meaningless if you accept only appreciation. you need to think twice, if you are not ready to face the different individual's views or responses
The reason we are here not because we are perfect but because we are going to gain and will learn a lot by being ready to be corrected the same time. You did contributed an importance topic. If one of our brothers had analysis a parallel article, it shouldn't worry you much It is like you had remained him to add some thing more on addition to what you had mentioned. Let encourage ourselves to post different topic.

GENESIS: 11:1-9
Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
4 the they said, "Come, let build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaces to the heaven, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth".
6 The Lord said, " if as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them".
7 "Come, let us go down and confuse their langauge so they will not understand each other".
8 "So the Lord scattered them from there over all earth, and they stopped building the city".
9 "That is why it was called Babel because there the Lord confused the language of the world".
ACTS 2:4,6,7
4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each on heard them speaking in his own language.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked, "are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?
8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language?
My dearest brothers and sisters, let us try to know about God intention of creating this world and to observe His instructions. If God want us as one nation, He could had destroyed the Tower, scattering people over the world and giving them differnt langauge and faces and colors.
Again, God give Holy Spirit in different langauages because we have to communicate with Him in our won way.
Let consider human attempt to unify the world to know it it has work or not.

Ottoman empire, United Kingdom (UK) Russia and others huge powers had once dominated the most parts of our world. Despite of their power, nations with poor war tools have prevail and retain their languages and cultures.
It wasn't because of their physical power that brought them victory, but God invisible spiritual power does.
Good example is European continent as world dominant which is Linguistically divided while keeping itself constitutionally. Nowadays, Turky is not willing to join EU because if its religon and culture.
One of the European president castigated US policy in pushing Europe to accept Turky membership that, "Europe will pay the price of bringing Turky with huge Muslim population, while American will be the beneficiray".
Cultural power had expelled out Sovit Union from Afghanistan.
Outgoing US preseident George W Bush had launched the war against Iraq in 2003 and Israel war against Lebanon in 2006,under SLOGAN, " the war to change the most trouble region in the world, middle east has begun".
But America has failed becausethe region has its agenda and point of view in vsiualzing the world.
Now, to overcome the situation in Iraq made US government to reconcile with tribal leaders likwise in Pakistan and Afhanistan.
Where are the most civilized Iraqis puppets used by American forces during invasion?
They are not there anymore because Iraqis people consider them traitors who have Western attitude.
One thing to consider is sense of racism feel by immigrants in their new world. Whenever you found yourself not original home, you feel incomplete and feel discriminate. You might feel it from your classmate, neighbor, co-worker etc.
So whome is so important.
So I wonder who will yield his culture to who and where is the one world we are expecting and who will it look like.
In some of indutrialized world, new generation is in trouble and shortly they will re-embrace their grandfather way of life. Most families give freedom to their children at age of 16 year olds. Those young people are confront by many difficulties and most them now are thinking that remaining under parental control is important. That is evidence of going back to old way of life.
Let continue discussion in good faith and cordiality.

This is in addition to the above opinon.

Thank you brother Matthew Pagan. For sure, you have a lot to offer me and I do as well.